Here is another thread discussing Williams Soap and it's history..
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140532&highlight=vintage+williams+score
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=140532&highlight=vintage+williams+score
Identifying Vintage Williams
- Thread starter michiganlover
- Start date
The history of Williams is amazing for such simple products. Just from the snippets of information over the last few months, I'd like to try to update a bit and provide some speculation.
Williams moved their operation from Glastonbury, Connecticut to Cranford, N.J. in 1960.
Former employees of Williams started up Glastonbury Toiletries, in the old plant, which remained in operation until 1977. Their main customer was the J.B.Williams Co.
It is my speculation that Glastonbury Toiletries were the ones making the rose scented soap and shave sticks for Williams and those versions died in North America when Glastonbury went out of business. Some of these versions have shown up with mixed label packaging (Glastonbury and Cranford) which would be post the 1960 move. No versions of these have ever been posted with a UPC code which would indicate post 1977. They may have gone out of production sooner. Since Williams was Glastonbury's biggest customer, this might have helped their demise.
Kiwi Brands is a subsidiary of Sara Lee Corp. Up until last year, Sara Lee held the non North American rights to manufacture Williams products.
The earliest documented licencing arrangement I could previously find with Williams (SmithKline Beecham) and Sara Lee was 1995. I strongly believe that the rose scented soap went out of production in North America in the 1970's. Therefore it's possible that the licencing agreement was in fact executed between Williams (Nabisco) and Sara Lee as early as 1971 and just renewed with new ownership. Nabisco and Sara Lee, being primarily food companies would obviously know each other very well. This would have allowed Sara Lee to acquire the original rose soap formula.
Back to Dyl's shave stick. Kiwi was not acquired by Sara Lee until 1984. Therefore the shave stick is no older than that. Sara Lee has not changed the original packaging for decades, so that doesn't help either. Why they would have the plastic bottom holder with Glastonbury as the address I have no idea. Possibly they had massive inventory of the holder left over since all vestiges of Glastonbury product disappeared in 1977, or they didn't bother to change their machining.
Sara Lee appears to have operated relatively autonomously from North American Williams. Up until Combe's acquisition of Williams' world wide rights last year, the formulations of Williams shave soap and even Aqua Velva have been different between North America and the rest of the world. Sara Lee does not appear to have done a lot of re-formulation of the original products.
In the post linked to by bythbook, DavidP acquired a Williams shave stick in South Africa. His appears identical to Dyl's except that it has no discernible scent. It would seem that his is either newer and Sara lee has removed the rose scent or older and the scent has disappeared.
In any case, if I were Dyl, I would clean out your source of every shave stick and either hoard them or sell them. Since Combe's acquisition of Williams' world wide rights, the rose scented tallow first shave stick might soon be extinct if it's not already.
Williams moved their operation from Glastonbury, Connecticut to Cranford, N.J. in 1960.
Former employees of Williams started up Glastonbury Toiletries, in the old plant, which remained in operation until 1977. Their main customer was the J.B.Williams Co.
It is my speculation that Glastonbury Toiletries were the ones making the rose scented soap and shave sticks for Williams and those versions died in North America when Glastonbury went out of business. Some of these versions have shown up with mixed label packaging (Glastonbury and Cranford) which would be post the 1960 move. No versions of these have ever been posted with a UPC code which would indicate post 1977. They may have gone out of production sooner. Since Williams was Glastonbury's biggest customer, this might have helped their demise.
Kiwi Brands is a subsidiary of Sara Lee Corp. Up until last year, Sara Lee held the non North American rights to manufacture Williams products.
The earliest documented licencing arrangement I could previously find with Williams (SmithKline Beecham) and Sara Lee was 1995. I strongly believe that the rose scented soap went out of production in North America in the 1970's. Therefore it's possible that the licencing agreement was in fact executed between Williams (Nabisco) and Sara Lee as early as 1971 and just renewed with new ownership. Nabisco and Sara Lee, being primarily food companies would obviously know each other very well. This would have allowed Sara Lee to acquire the original rose soap formula.
Back to Dyl's shave stick. Kiwi was not acquired by Sara Lee until 1984. Therefore the shave stick is no older than that. Sara Lee has not changed the original packaging for decades, so that doesn't help either. Why they would have the plastic bottom holder with Glastonbury as the address I have no idea. Possibly they had massive inventory of the holder left over since all vestiges of Glastonbury product disappeared in 1977, or they didn't bother to change their machining.
Sara Lee appears to have operated relatively autonomously from North American Williams. Up until Combe's acquisition of Williams' world wide rights last year, the formulations of Williams shave soap and even Aqua Velva have been different between North America and the rest of the world. Sara Lee does not appear to have done a lot of re-formulation of the original products.
In the post linked to by bythbook, DavidP acquired a Williams shave stick in South Africa. His appears identical to Dyl's except that it has no discernible scent. It would seem that his is either newer and Sara lee has removed the rose scent or older and the scent has disappeared.
In any case, if I were Dyl, I would clean out your source of every shave stick and either hoard them or sell them. Since Combe's acquisition of Williams' world wide rights, the rose scented tallow first shave stick might soon be extinct if it's not already.
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His scent may have disappeared as it seems his was the refill available in a small cardboard box, not the semi-sealed plastic holder.
Oh, believe me, I am doing so. I was quite surprised when I first used it, after reading all the anti-williams banter here that it worked very well ... I will infact go as far as to say that, although I love the smell of Trumpers Sandalwood, the shave stick has given me better shaves.
:(disclaimer: haven't tried the GFT at face lathering yet ... so that may be the difference)
The problem is that I know of not one more person here that still shaves traditionally ... meaning that the product doesn't move on the shelves and the supermarkets are taking them down. The main supermarket I bought my first stick at had about 20 of them when I bought one, and when I went back a week later, the shelf was filled with Proglide gel.
I will go out looking again soon at some smaller out of the way markets, and if I find some ... will consider a small PIF to deserving Williams fans to try it out...
This is a great post. I love all of the history behind this product.
I don't have an issue with the current formulation but I was able to snag 2 pre-bar code pucks from Ebay. The new stuff cannot compare to these older pucks. It lathers as well as tabac and the other tallow soaps. I paid $7.50 for the two of these (shipped) and I consider it a great deal.
Dyl, if you find more and are interested in sharing with the rest of the world I would be interested in aquiring one of those shave sticks. Maybe we can work out a group buy if you can get enough.
I don't have an issue with the current formulation but I was able to snag 2 pre-bar code pucks from Ebay. The new stuff cannot compare to these older pucks. It lathers as well as tabac and the other tallow soaps. I paid $7.50 for the two of these (shipped) and I consider it a great deal.
Dyl, if you find more and are interested in sharing with the rest of the world I would be interested in aquiring one of those shave sticks. Maybe we can work out a group buy if you can get enough.
- Thread starter
- #86
+1
My collection of Vintage Williams doesn't feel complete without having one of these late production shaving sticks to sample.
It is the rose scent that really has me wanting one of these. I have a couple of the old Wms sticks in red plastic - one in use - and the scent & performance of those old guys is outstanding!
I really would love to try one of the apparently now-discontinued S. African sticks - that has the rose scent - to compare.
Can you imagine: the old-fashioned Williams rose-scented tallow shave sticks might recently have been commercially available... and now aren't!!!! And we never knew................
I really would love to try one of the apparently now-discontinued S. African sticks - that has the rose scent - to compare.
Can you imagine: the old-fashioned Williams rose-scented tallow shave sticks might recently have been commercially available... and now aren't!!!! And we never knew................
Since finding my first two vintage Williams pucks a while back I've been on a mission to find more, at reasonable prices. Found this one for $3 at an antique store. It's from the Cranford N.J. plant, no ingredient list and an original price of 15 cents in the price circle.
What struck me as extremely funny, for some weird reason, is what's printed on the tab advertising Aqua Velva: "New cooling action! New he-man scent!"
Now I can tell people I wear Aqua Velva because I want to smell like a he-man!
What struck me as extremely funny, for some weird reason, is what's printed on the tab advertising Aqua Velva: "New cooling action! New he-man scent!"
Now I can tell people I wear Aqua Velva because I want to smell like a he-man!
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That explains this old comic book panel I've been wondering about
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I would like to contribute one. I suspect this soap is from 1982 since it has 2/82 above the price of .71 and from other postings in this thread. The box also has a bar code, pricing circle, ing list, and was made in the Cranford NJ plant.
I just got a NOS puck of the one mentioned above. I'm pleasantly surprised that it does not smell anything like the current production Williams. Mine has a clean soapy scent, actually pleasant. The puck itself feels soft in my hand, by comparison the current production puck I had felt like a hard rock. I have a feeling I might enjoy this vintage puck but I have not tried it yet.
You will.
- Thread starter
- #97
You will enjoy it so much you will very likely never touch the current formula ever again.
You will enjoy it so much you will very likely never touch the current formula ever again.
Mind you, I'm not a tallow die-hard and I don't think tallow is the greatest thing man shaved with. I personally get better results with the French shea butter soaps (Cade, PdP), my skin seems to really like shea butter. We'll see how it goes with this vintage Williams.
I've used Williams since the late sixties and I never noticed a difference. I guess I just flowed with the evolution; or maybe I was stoned during the good years.
(this thread will probably drive the bidding wars for Vintage Williams higher.)
Yes, there were a few in the $30's on the bay.
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